Finding the Enneagram Type: Part 3
by Peter O’Hanrahan
The Typing Interview
Practitioners are usually good at interviewing people. It’s part of the job. In the Enneagram work we have what’s called a typing interview that focuses on information that could help us, or the client, discover their likely personality type. It’s a particular format. We go around all the types in a structured way to find what makes people tick. The distinctions are not always clearcut. Questions in one area may supply useful information about another area. Follow up questions are important. For example, relationships may be important to me as an Eight (which they are) but I don’t spend as much time thinking about them as the Twos. And I’m more self-referencing, so I will answer differently to a question about knowing my own needs, being able to say “no” and so on.
I had been teaching the Enneagram for many years before I joined the Palmer/Daniels training program in 1991. (Now the Narrative Enneagram school). As a body therapist I thought that I could know someone’s type by sensing their body movements, tone of voice, breathing style, etc. But over time I discovered that I was “right” only half the time. Not bad for a system with nine choices! But where did that leave the other 50% of the people? Not so good. What I learned in the training was how to conduct an organized typing interview. I could combine my intuition with actual data from the client.
You may have your own style of intuition which can be a good source of information. But my suggestion is to go around to all nine areas of the Enneagram and ask a least a couple questions related to each type. Don’t jump to conclusions. Keep an open mind throughout the interview rather than “lock on” to a specific type.
When we open up questions in an area of the Enneagram it’s important to start with the positive. Asking people how good are you at problem solving, how important is to be prepared for things going wrong, is better than asking someone “are you full of fear and doubt?” And just don’t ask someone if they are slothful or deceitful etc. There are ways to mediate the questions about the tough parts of type.
I was coaching an interview one day in a training and the beginner interviewer (a male physician) opened the area of type Four by asking the person: “Are you a really sad and depressed person?” The interviewee quickly responded with “no, that’s not me.” It turned out she was indeed a type Four but was offended by the characterization in the question. We want people to feel that each type is a good place to land. Start with the positive strengths before moving to the difficulties.
Many years and hundreds of typing interviews later, I have great respect for the typing interview method. In addition to trying to discover the person’s type it’s a great conversation about the things that are important to people: their relationship style, their strengths and challenges, their major goal or goals in life, how much privacy they need, what is their relationship to conflict, and more. At the end of the interview we give them the benefit of our feedback without having to pin down the type. If we think their answers in this interview, in this conversation, strongly indicate one type we can say so. But it’s still best to add at least one other possibility. And it’s also OK to finish an interview with multiple suggestions. Some people are harder to type but we can narrow down the possibilities. And they can feel seen and heard.
Important areas of inquiry
I’ve found that there are some questions, some answers, that are more important than others. Here are two aspects of the types that I always bring into an interview – major goals and defenses.
Major Goals
Each type has a major goal. OK, this is a generalization but a useful one. People are not always aware of their patterns, although we ask about these. But when we go beyond leading questions such as “do you ever….” to ask “how important is this, and what happens if you don’t achieve it?” we are likely to get type-related information.
I’ve included a diagram of the nine major goals. A person may well relate to many of them. I have more than a couple on my list of good things. But if I am put on the spot to say what is the most important, I can choose. Most people can do this, or at least select two goals. And if there has been a major change in your life we want to know both before and after. Try this yourself and see if it works. If you look at the nine choices which one, or which ones, would you pick? Would you have a different answer when you were a young adult? Sometimes we find a person’s type when they say “This is how I used to be but I’ve worked on this and now I am different” or “My life situation changed so much that my goal(s) needed to change.” Goals may change, patterns may change, even our neurobiology can change. But our Enneagram type is still with us, perhaps more evolved.
I have a friend who was going back and forth between Six and Nine. We could see qualities of both types in her, and of course they are connected on a line so people can travel back and forth depending on circumstances. She was confused. I was confused. Finally I asked her what is more important to you: security (T-6) or harmony (T-9)? She immediately responded with “What good is harmony if you don’t have security?” That pretty much sealed the deal on type Six and was supported by further discovery in the aspects of Six. She is a psychologically healthy person and if we were going by neurotic styles (where is the paranoia, distrust or worst case thinking?) she would not fit the profile.
Our major goal directs what we call the “habit of attention.” One way to describe the Enneagram is as a map of how people see the world. We are constantly sorting through billions of bits of data to find what is most important to us. It makes sense. We can’t handle everything, so we select and prioritize. The problem is that we don’t know this, it’s so familiar, like the fish not seeing the water they are swimming in. It generally works for us but there are blind spots, things we don’t see that may turn out to be very important. One of the great topics for Enneagram learning is “knowing your blind spots.
When it comes to human relationships this is something that can create havoc unless we make a real effort to see things from another person’s perspective. And it’s often a big surprise to discover that a close friend or partner sees things differently. And to realize that their way works!
If you are interviewing people, either formally or just in conversation, you can learn how to ask distinguishing questions. (This is discussed in a book on typing listed at the end of this article).
For example, Nines have the primary goal of harmony and comfort. Relationships may be very important. But they prioritize harmony in their relationships and tend to avoid conflict. They may sacrifice parts of their relationships, or parts of themselves, to keep the peace. And other Nines are not people oriented. They find comfort in technology, or nature, or building things.
Nines may identify with type Four and the experience of longing for wholeness, or deep feelings of grief and abandonment. They may well have this in common with Fours. But the major goal for Fours is not harmony, it’s to be deeply and authentically connected (emotionally) in love and work. Relationships may be very important, but Fours will create conflict or walk away from a relationship that does not measure up to their expectations. Harmony is further down on the list. By the way, as a type Eight I actually like harmony! And I like deep connections. But these are not at the top of my list. I have attached a chart with the nine priority goals. Which one is at the top of your list? It’s not infallible, but it’s an important indicator of the Enneagram type. (Unless people have gone through major changes which is why we ask about that).
The Defenses
Another significant indicator of type is the defense system. There are three parts to this: idealization, avoidance, and defense mechanism. (see the article on my website if you are interested). Unless we’ve had a lot of development, we are largely unaware of our defenses. We just do what we feel what we need to do in order to protect ourselves and hold ourselves together. And defenses legitimately serve this purpose. At the same time defenses can create suffering, isolation, self neglect, and so on. They distance us from other people and also from our deeper selves. Working on them directly is a big deal and requires self awareness, self acceptance, and support. If we are friendly and respectful they can also be a key to finding the type. The defense “mechanism” is hard to recognize, at least before some serious work. But the other two elements, the idealization and the avoidance pattern, can be part of an interview, conversation, and a process of self reflection.
You may already know about idealization, or the idealized self image. This usually means that we take a quality that is true about us, perhaps a strength in our structure, and we put it into a certain place in our psyche. It becomes an ideal to live up to. It also becomes a pressure. If I live up to my ideal I have worth and value. If I fail to live up to this ideal I am unworthy or unloveable. The ideal also allows us to avoid something unacceptable, kind of like its opposite. These fall into nine patterns. My idealization and avoidance are different from yours.
When I am interviewing I will ask people “how important is it to be right (T-1), or helpful (T-2), or successful (T-4), or authentic (T-4)? Well they all sound good. But what is most important? What shows up every day and what happens if you don’t live up to this? It’s when we add the avoidance pattern that the types get specific.
So for type One, what is it like to be wrong or mistaken? For type Two, how good are you at expressing your own needs? For Threes what happens if you fail? For Fours how often are you disappointed by people or situations that are not very deep or meaningful? (Which is what we mean by “ordinary” for type Four). People will identify with more than one idealization but when both the idealization and the avoidance pattern are a big deal, that will point towards a particular personality type. Or we can at least narrow down the possibilities.
Let’s look briefly at the high energy, “assertive/aggressive” types (3, 7, 8). Threes prioritize being successful (in the eyes of others). That sounds good to me as an Eight. I want to be successful too, but what is more important is to be strong. And while Threes are horrified by failure, it’s not such a big deal for me. I don’t like failure but so what. Things fail. What scares me the most is vulnerability, and maybe we don’t even ask this directly but ask instead “what about when you aren’t strong? As for the Sevens, they are happy to have success, but it’s much more important to enjoy life. They won’t hang in there very long if a project is not fun or interesting. And failure doesn’t bother them so much. They just move on to the next thing. So each of these types will generally say the being successful is important (and other types too). But it’s not at the top of their list. And the major avoidance will be different. We need to ask how important (compared to other things) is success? What is their definition of success? What happens if you are not successful, if you fail? How important is it that you are recognized for your success?
